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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #1 
Just a general enquiry.

Any one know about insulation? Inserted foam etc. When my roof was damaged, a few owners prior, the front luton was damaged and the cover and inside replaced. I believe that the inner skin cover was striped back and re-installed without any insulation. Hence the condensation overload. The wooden frames appear to be OK. 

Is it possible to insert a type of foam insulation via injection or similar. I can't remove the inner skin. 

Hmmmm? Might well be a silly question. But it's the last one of 2017 for me.

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Pudsey Bear

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Reply with quote  #2 
You can get a DIY kit Ross, but in an enclosed space it might produce a explosive effect as it rapidly expanded, you would need to do it in stages, and have some means of extending the guns reach, dunno if a simple pipe would work or not.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/292359103977?chn=ps&adgroupid=46979492363&rlsatarget=pla-379117737580&abcId=1128936&adtype=pla&merchantid=6995734&poi=&googleloc=1007002&device=t&campaignid=856333651&crdt=0&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fi%25252F292359103977%25253Fchn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D292359103977%2526targetid%253D379117737580%2526device%253Dt%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D1007002%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D856333651%2526adgroupid%253D46979492363%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-379117737580%2526abcId%253D1128936%2526merchantid%253D6995734%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQiAsqLSBRCmARIsAL4Pa9QAQ6m8AmY0mbT0ZuA8QTSZAD2rQTNYKySGkridWNBGekU816zZtlMaArXeEALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1405158499907


https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjaqJ3tkLTYAhWit-0KHSadAc4YABANGgJkZw&ae=1&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAESEeD2JfREgUDfwkwF7xWUdnla&sig=AOD64_3QV0JQLpeR5o527KfuMk68dA6qgg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwiBvJbtkLTYAhULIcAKHZMFBGsQwg8ILg&adurl=https://www.abbuildingproducts.co.uk/touch-n-foam-200---spray-foam-kit-pr-5203.php%3Fgclid%3DCj0KCQiAsqLSBRCmARIsAL4Pa9SFBxN9nIdI_N0O_V91IZS9p12A0r2fkmpUcMHNRz6xhkikgHwFzuEaApTlEALw_wcB



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Kev [comp] 

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2002 Bessacarr E745 Ducato
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primus

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Reply with quote  #3 
I would not go down the expanded foam route Ross.
It’s difficult to judge and can be disasterous if you inject too much.
It is also extremely sticky and virtually impossible to remove from fabric or plastics.
Even getting any on your hands it has to just about wear off.
My suggestion would be approach a cavity wall insulating firm and see if they will blow in some polystyrene micro balls for you.
This would only require a very small hole making to access the space above the inner skin.
I have no idea how much this would cost. But with it being such a small area and that you could take the van to them I would think cost would be minimal. 👍

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ray

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Reply with quote  #4 
The trouble with spray foam especially on the thin skins of the interior and exterior is the foam as it expands forms tremendous pressure, and if it is contained in an enclosed area will continue expanding until it has reached it's full potential and will distort or pop anything that is stopping the expansion.

Or in layman's language it will knacker everything! .. So don't go there.

ray.
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Pudsey Bear

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Reply with quote  #5 
John is right about the sticky, and comes up with a good solution, although I might be inclined to go to Ikea and get one of those beany bags, and DIY it, a small hole with a funnel, get as much as you can in, go for a drive on a rough road, Aran will do [biggrin] [biggrin] [biggrin] then see if you can get more in.
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Kev [comp] 

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If you're not the lead dog, your view never changes.

Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Semper ubi, Sub ubi. 

Link to self build pictures 


http://tinyurl.com/nzyry9n

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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you all for the information. I note all your comments. I think you made up my mind for me. Stick with the de-humidifier.
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Link to self build pictures 

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SANDBAGSID

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Reply with quote  #7 
I would think there should be timber struts in the roof as well so
you might have to have more than one hole to get it all filled in.
can you not remove the inner lining and maybe put inch kingspan
or similar in then refix lining, just a thought ross.

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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #8 
SANDBAGSID

Thank you for the suggestion. To remove the lining is beyond my capability. Cost of such by a 3rd party is prohibitive. Ah well!

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whiskers

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Reply with quote  #9 
Many years ago a chap sprayed a 1" layer of expanding foam, or similar, under the roof. It stopped the damp and condensation on the felt and timbers. It has also made it a bit warmer in the loft which is useful as I have my N gauge railway up there.
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witzend

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskers
Many years ago a chap sprayed a 1" layer of expanding foam, or similar, under the roof.

I,ve seen roofs done with that usualy roofs that for one reason or another can,t be removed to fitt new felt it looks like expanding foam but only turns to it from a clear liquid.
Last time I saw it in use was just a few days ago on tv travel channel building in Alaska
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Pudsey Bear

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Reply with quote  #11 
I did all the inside of my self build with it, brilliant stuff.
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Kev [comp] 

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If you're not the lead dog, your view never changes.

Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Semper ubi, Sub ubi. 

Link to self build pictures 


http://tinyurl.com/nzyry9n

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loopwithers

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Reply with quote  #12 
Ross - how easy would it be for the offending area of 'inner roof' on your mh (which is getting wet) to be removed downwards for inspection?
What I mean is would you just have to drill out a few rivets and screws or is that piece over-layered with lots of other stuff which would have to be removed first just to get to it?
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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #13 
loopwithers

Unfortunately the whole of the interior skin would have to be pealed. From the base area above the cab, up the front to the top and along to the Luton join.

As the probable damage was from a height barrier, I personally think that the repair was done from the outside, pealing the outer skin from the cab front up and over to the downward portion of the Luton. Probably smoothed out and re-sealed. Nor did they check the sealing of the remainder of the roof. Who ever did it did not put any insulation back. To have the outer skin removed and replaced would be an expense too far.

I think also it would have been done by a dubious non-motorhome repairer. Who one earth would not put insulation back?

The de-humidifier works well. Less than 10% being recorded now.

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Kev [comp]  😃
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If you're not the lead dog, your view never changes.

Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Semper ubi, Sub ubi. 

Link to self build pictures 

Email to mhowners@yahoo.com

http://tinyurl.com/nzyry9n
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loopwithers

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Reply with quote  #14 
Clearly someone who did not care. BRB
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loopwithers

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Reply with quote  #15 
Okay but what is the interior skin made of? 
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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopwithers
Okay but what is the interior skin made of? 


Just checked. Appears to be board. Full width of the van. There are no joins. There is a batons across at the luton and further into the habitation area. Further investigation would entail their removal. I might have a look in the summer whilst we are away and in the heat. Would not try it now. Too cold to work in the van for me.

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Kev [comp]  😃
Warning, might contain an opinion [nono]  

If you're not the lead dog, your view never changes.

Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Semper ubi, Sub ubi. 

Link to self build pictures 

Email to mhowners@yahoo.com

http://tinyurl.com/nzyry9n
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loopwithers

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Reply with quote  #17 
Totally agree. Not the time and temperature for those kind of frolics. But now you know the exact cost if you DIY:

* Choose a hardboard ceiling area that is central to the 'trouble' in your Rosie. Pencil out an area on it (as you look upward) that would suit being cut out for access reasons.
* Measure that entire hardboard area including and around your 'work entrance' from edge to edge - where it meets batons or joins that seem to secure it.
* Find the cost of obtaining a suitably finished sheet of similar hardboard material to the one you are about to vandalise. Measurements as per your last task.
* Cut the ceiling, do the cleaning and drying and insulation job properly, then over-face the work access with the new ceiling panel using epoxy sealants, correct for the job. New ceiling panel stretches to the edges of batons and joints and makes your intervention invisible because it over-covers your original inspection hole from edge to edge of the ceiling. There is no evidence of a hole or a double layer roof. The eye cannot pick out the detail easily.

If you sourced the ceiling trim panel of your choice plus the sealant and dead seals and ferrets or whatever you wonderful Scottish islanders use for insulation in your far-flung part of our Empire then a weekend in a local auto re-spray garage might see the job done for £200-250? *Cut, dry, insulate, replace, cover over with new inner roof panel*. Off to France.

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loopwithers

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Reply with quote  #18 
Forgot to explain: Local bodywork repair centres (of the kind who undertake insurance work for your beloved insurers) spend lots of time heating their workshops up and getting rid of moisture. Only then can real painting take place. So, drying out a motorhome with de-hums and huge extractor fans over a weekend is kind of easy for them. They have the set up already...and it is a quiet weekend and one guy wants overtime 'cos his wife is expecting their second kid...etc. etc. A mega sharp craft knife and a steel edge are used to 'over-cut' the replacement panel and trim it gently until it slots in perfectly between edge trimmings and has a millimetre or so all round.
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whiskers

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Reply with quote  #19 
Ross wrote---
I think also it would have been done by a dubious non-motorhome repairer. Who one earth would not put insulation back?

I bought a new PVC Sapphire conversion on a 2 year old Volkswagen Crafter. As we drove off after a cold night away we got drenched from the condensation that had settled in the roof formers.  I found that the Devon Conversions people had not insulated the cab roof. The boss, who was not very helpful, informed me that it was not their custom to insulate the cab roof.

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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskers
Ross wrote---
I think also it would have been done by a dubious non-motorhome repairer. Who one earth would not put insulation back?

I bought a new PVC Sapphire conversion on a 2 year old Volkswagen Crafter. As we drove off after a cold night away we got drenched from the condensation that had settled in the roof formers.  I found that the Devon Conversions people had not insulated the cab roof. The boss, who was not very helpful, informed me that it was not their custom to insulate the cab roof.


I stand corrected. It's a shame. In my opinion, it is often the people who design and build, are people who never use a motorhome.

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If you're not the lead dog, your view never changes.

Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Semper ubi, Sub ubi. 

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ray

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Reply with quote  #21 

Maybe there is insulation in-between the skins and you have an outside leak that has wet the insulation making it worse than useless, have you had a damp test done for your habitation cert, if not you can buy a damp meter off e bay or similar for just a few quid, and test it yourself, start at the beginning not at the end.

ray.

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witzend

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Reply with quote  #22 
I have found that if using heating in the van my overcab storage gets damp unless I leave it,s access door open
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SANDBAGSID

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Reply with quote  #23 
I think ross done a damp meter test before and sorted it out.
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loopwithers

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Reply with quote  #24 
You are right Alan - Ross did a nice big review article on damp meters as well. Whiskers discovers yet another "don't know, don't care" operator, busy giving motorhome sales people a bad name. I'm sure there are some good ones out there but they sure are few and far between!
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Kev Admin

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Reply with quote  #25 
Thank you for the hint ray. There is no water ingress anywhere in the van. Sealed and damp tested by me. As you suggested. all arears, every where. I fact every few inches. And mapped as well, so I know if there is any change. The Condensation was dripping every morning, before the inclusion of the de-humidifier. No drips at all now. Happy bunny
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AKA Pudsey Bear

Kev [comp]  😃
Warning, might contain an opinion [nono]  

If you're not the lead dog, your view never changes.

Don't force it, use a bigger hammer. Semper ubi, Sub ubi. 

Link to self build pictures 

Email to mhowners@yahoo.com

http://tinyurl.com/nzyry9n
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