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shunter50

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Reply with quote  #1 
Ducato 2.8 TD Gearbox.

Fourth gear has disappeared again. Is this a regular occurrence on this gearbox? The last repair cost me £1,800 a year ago. All I've done in that time is just over 2000 miles.

The reason I was given for gears/synchro to drop out was water in the gearbox??? I thought they were sealed. Seems the water runs down the windscreen, into the engine bay and, because of the position of the engine, drops onto it and manages to get into the gearbox and damage the synchro.

If I hadn't been told this by two separate transmission repairers I would have checked it wasn't April 1.

Also told that Fiat didn't make spare gearboxes and the internal bits are not available as spares, either OEM or aftermarket.

Anybody had the same problem? If so, what's the remedy?

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Steptoe

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Reply with quote  #2 
All I can offer is commiserations but wondering if it might be cheaper to try to source a S/H gearbox from a breakers? The problem is finding a breaker who will stock one; the old days of wandering round a field looking for a similar rusty vehicle are sadly gone. Nowadays, like the Fiat parts departments they concentrate on newish i.e. up to 10 year old vans. 

I'm aware of the potential for water somehow getting in the gearbox and, when I had a 2.8 van, extended the (rubber) scuttle drain hose with a length of plastic pipe so it discharged clear of the box.   

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SANDBAGSID

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Reply with quote  #3 
I feel for you after paying out that kind of money for a repair I would definitely expect it to last more than 2000 miles, why if they said it was water getting into the gearbox didn’t they advise you to get that problem solved so it wouldn’t happen again. Must admit I would never have a fiat myself. Hope you get it sorted out and not a huge bill again.
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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #4 
Not a common problem with 4th gear but common for 5th gear on the earlier 2.8  X244.

As to specifically your problem, I'd be thinking along the lines of the last repair was done either very badly but most likely with second hand parts that were not suitable for re-use.

Different people will have different theories for failures, there are lots of myths and suppositions going around about Fiat gearboxes, quite a lot are wide of the mark.

Most parts are available but often need extensive searching to find.

The only way to know if water was in the gearbox would be to see the oil that was drained out of the box, if milky white then water present, water contamination will normally hurt the bearings.

Good quality oil at the correct level will normally be the answer to correct working and longevity.

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BurtSner

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Reply with quote  #5 
Sorry, I can’t offer any help here. I had a X244 for a few years, but I was never aware of any gearbox difficulties other than the known 5th gear woes.

In my view your first port of call has to be the original restorer to see what they say about their repair in view of how recently it was fixed.

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Reply with quote  #6 
Would it be correct to assume that it is only the bearings which are damaged by water, wouldnt the gears still be serviceable
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SANDBAGSID

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Reply with quote  #7 
Unless the bearing seized up and the gears still tried turning and damaged the teeth doubtful though I would have thought. I would just go back to the garage that done the work and query it with them.
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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudsey Bear
Would it be correct to assume that it is only the bearings which are damaged by water, wouldnt the gears still be serviceable


Very slightly possibly water contamination could cause problem with the synchro rings, but I can't see how that would cause the gear to disengage, more likely to be poor engagement (crunching).
Yes the bearings are likely to suffer from track pitting which will at least cause a lot of noise.
The actual gears, the large bits that transmit the power are not the parts which engage or keep the selected gear engaged, they are the small dogs on the end of the gear that interface with the synchro slider.

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shunter50

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thanks very much for all the replies.

There is no noise from the gearbox at all. It's when I try to go from 3rd up or 5th down it feels as if there's a softish, but solid, barrier stopping it from sliding into place. On the last few gear changes of my last trip, it suddenly decided to work, but maybe, like Amazon, Apple and Facebook, it was "listening in". I was threatening to get rid of the b***** thing!!!

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BurtSner

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Reply with quote  #10 
When you are stationary, with the engine off, are you able to smoothly select up and down through the gears 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 ?

A “barrier” as such sounds to me (no technical knowledge) as though the synchro rings maybe playing up.

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Simon
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Reply with quote  #11 
Following on from Simon's post and your mention of a 'barrier' to engaging gear, I remembered about the infamous pivot on these gearboxes. If you had the gearbox professionally removed and refitted hopefully the installer will have checked this, if not it would be worth giving it a wriggle to ensure it's not seized.

There is a brief description in this link:  

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/320494-lubricating-244-2-8-jtd-gear-linkage.html?320494=#post3192266

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BurtSner

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Reply with quote  #12 
That’s an interesting piece to read, and given that the symptoms were previously due to water ingress, perhaps there is a need for a good greasing.
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Burstner Nexxo T660 - family fun
1974 Norton Commando
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Exeter, East Devon

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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shunter50
Thanks very much for all the replies.

There is no noise from the gearbox at all. It's when I try to go from 3rd up or 5th down it feels as if there's a softish, but solid, barrier stopping it from sliding into place. On the last few gear changes of my last trip, it suddenly decided to work, but maybe, like Amazon, Apple and Facebook, it was "listening in". I was threatening to get rid of the b***** thing!!!


Thought from your original post that the problem was the gear dropping out, not as you now say it won't engage.
There is a good possibility that this problem is caused by the gear change linkage needing adjustment, if you pull off the rubber boot under the ger change lever you can get access to the adjustable parts.
From your OP you only say that it is a 2.8 TD, to me that suggest an earlish 2.8 (pre JTD), what actual year and model is it? makes a difference to what needs adjusting and how.

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shunter50

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Reply with quote  #14 
Sorry John. Yes it is a JTD, 2003 (53 plate).

Thanks also to info from Ernie and Simon.

Never known a thread to stay on track for so long. I'm most grateful.

Anton

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