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Liberty hall

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As the title suggests we have a 07 Ducato which if it’s freezing or warm will start no problems. However if it’s mild as today it will start though will Chuck until it’s left to warmed up approximately 15/20 minutes. If we try to drive it then it surges until warm then it fine.

We’ve changed three of the glow plugs the forth was seized though was working so we left it alone fuel lines have all been replaced as has the diesel filter. We’ve heard that it could be the air sensor not sending a signal to the ecu for it to allow the glow plugs to heat the cylinders !!!

Though we’ve not been able to find the sensor so does anyone have an idea where it could be or any other solution to the problem please.

Many thanks
Ken

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whiskers

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Ken, have you posted the question on the Fiat Forum? Plenty of Ducato posters on there.
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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskers
Hi Ken, have you posted the question on the Fiat Forum? Plenty of Ducato posters on there.

Whiskers
No hadn’t thought of that one I’ll hunt one down and see!! Thank you for the suggestion.
Take care
Ken

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BurtSner

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Reply with quote  #4 
Try here

https://www.fiatforum.com

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SANDBAGSID

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Reply with quote  #5 
We had an old transit with seized glow plugs poured Coca Cola on them left it
Over night and they came out a piece of cake. Worth a try. Don’t let any go down the bore though. If it does just turn the engine over a couple of times before fitting the new plug in.

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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #6 
Thank you for replies guys and the link I’ll give it a go and see what I get back

No replies yet from fiat forum though will keep you posted

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Pudsey Bear

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Reply with quote  #7 
Oops missed this thread Ken

I have nothing to add though sadly.

John may have a clue if he sees this though.

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Steptoe

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty hall


No replies yet from fiat forum though will keep you posted


The only non-starting topic posted there in the last couple of days is from username 'nthompson' however those symptoms are unrelated.

Is is possible that you posted your query elsewhere in the Fiatforum rather than the specific Ducato section?

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kelpie

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SANDBAGSID
We had an old transit with seized glow plugs poured Coca Cola on them left it
Over night and they came out a piece of cake. Worth a try. Don’t let any go down the bore though. If it does just turn the engine over a couple of times before fitting the new plug in.
Guy who works on my taxi swears by the cola method . I f he's changing glow plugs or injectors he asks for the car the night before and soaks in cola .
Renault traffic went through a phase at the airport where injectors were "welded in" . Couple of guys "wrecked" engines or heads trying to get them out.
John

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SANDBAGSID

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Reply with quote  #10 
Cola works most times makes you wonder what it does to people,s insides 🤮
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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #11 
Steptoe
Only posted this evening had a couple of replies though we’ve done what a suggested already. It was a general fiat forum not specifically for Ducato,s

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Steptoe

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Reply with quote  #12 
This is the link to the ducato section, there is a wealth of relevant knowledge in there, well worth searching as well as posting up your issue.

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/

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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #13 
Steptoe cheers I’ll give that link ago
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BurtSner

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Reply with quote  #14 
I found the post immediately from6 hours or so ago in the new posts category. I didn’t look to see if it was In The Ducato section
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Steptoe

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtSner
I found the post immediately from6 hours or so ago in the new posts category. I didn’t look to see if it was In The Ducato section


My log-in settings take me straight to the Ducato section (my user name over there is crossingkeeper) so I never look in the new posts section, however several of the more knowledgeable contributors have already replied so I guess they do!

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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #16 
I can't help a lot on this one.

Not totally clear as to the problem, when you start from very cold or hot you say it starts straight away, does it drive OK immediately or do you have to wait?

When starting from warm does it fire up straight away but won't rev or does it miss-fire?

Any other symptoms?

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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #17 
John sorry for delay in replying yes when it’s freezing or warm conditions starts and runs fine. It’s when it’s mild it’s lumpy until the temp warms up then it’s fine. Once warm it runs well no problem it pulls fine and as I’ve said we’ve replaced the fuel lines filter the accelerator body 4 glow plugs, we’ve put diesel cleaner in to no effect also no fault codes. So we’re at a loss to know what to try next!! Apologies again for late reply
Take care
Ken

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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #18 
When mild does it fire up normally or does it turn over longer than normal before firing?

Once started if you try to drive away immediately, what happens ? is it down on power? hesitates ? misfires, or something else.

By lumpy do you mean that the tick over is uneven?

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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #19 
Evening John
When mild it starts first turn though runs uneven, if I try to drive away immediately it won’t rev with clouds of white smoke which I believe it’s un burnt fuel.And the engine light comes on, once warm it’s fine. Yes by lumpy I mean uneven
Thank you
Ken

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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #20 
OK, still no definite ideas but your diagnosis of the white smoke being unburnt fuel I'd say was correct and most likely what your problem actually is.

So why?
Strange no fault codes showing, if as you say it runs normally with no problems when hot or cold then something is causing it to over fuel at mid temperatures, I'd guess that the fuel metering is supplying the correct amount for a cold engine, but continuing to do so for too long, at this time my guess would be a temperature sender fault, but which and where I don't know as I've never encountered such a fault.

I think you can discount things such as air filter and the intake system, perhaps an EGR fault, although they usually show totally different symptoms.

Does your van have a particulate filter as well as a catalytic converter? A blocked or partially so one will give very strange problems.

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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #21 
Thanks for the reply John
Re partially not sure it’s an 07 2.3 130 multi jet so will look in to it . One idea we’ve come up with is we managed to replace three of the glow plugs however the fiorth was seized though when tested was working how well were not sure. So we think it may not be 100% and the cylinder is cold which causes the uneven running and the unburnt fuel. Though we’re far from experts!! just a logical reason that maybe the cause?
Thank you for the replies
Take care
Ken

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eurajohn

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Reply with quote  #22 
I guess just a mistake but there are only 4 cylinders and 4 plugs.

The only problem with your guess is that it starts well when cold, cold start requires the glow plugs to operate correctly, if it were one dodgy plug it would likely be more noticeable when cold, I suppose it is possible that the controller for the plugs should be turning them on at the temperature your having problems with and is not, that would cause the poor running and smoke but I would have thought it would not have started straight away without excessive cranking if that were the case

Modern diesels only employ the glow plugs when the ambient temperature is low enough to require them, you will have noticed that the little coil sign light only comes on when it is cold enough for the engine to need the plugs to operate, when being used you'll notice that the light only stays on a very short time, this is the wait to start time, which means as soon as the light goes out the plugs have reached their operating temperature, you then start the engine but the plugs will continue to glow to aid combustion for a pre determined time.


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Liberty hall

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Reply with quote  #23 
Sorry yes was never good with arithmetic !!!!!
Ken

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